Kelly converses with Kalifa Oliver, an international experience coach, executive advisor, keynote speaker, author and expert in building brilliant experiences using people-centered design and analytics. Her new book is called, “I Think I Love My Job: Secrets to Designing a People-Centered Employer Value Proposition (That You Can Actually Boast About.”  

There’s a line in your book, I’ve had the privilege of having a seat at the table, but I have also had to sit outside of the door. 

“Often when we think about how people get to where they get to and how they’ve learned things, we always try to tell the rosy story, right? Like, I worked really hard, and I got a seat at the table. But even at those levels, even as you work, you always have to remember there will be times when you are sitting outside the door, right? And you have to decide if you are able to have the impact outside that door or not.” 

You talk about the big difference between toddlers and executives is that toddlers ask more questions.  

“If you’ve ever been around toddlers, they just ask questions, ask questions, ask questions. And at the same time that I have these toddlers. I am also dealing with executives. And this is so funny to say, but then you start realizing the similarity between these two groups of people. You have to think ahead for toddlers, because when they ask that first question they are not going to stop until they understand. They want you to simplify that thing to where it makes sense. Leaders and executives are similar, except they don’t ask as many questions because they don’t feel comfortable and safe in many ways to say they don’t know or they don’t understand things.”

You write convincingly about how the data shows that a lot of people are more productive with jobs that are not in the office five days a week. 

“Being in-person doesn’t mean I work any harder or more productive. It also doesn’t mean I’m not innovative because innovations did not stop during the pandemic. In fact, many of them blossomed because people found new ways. That’s the beauty of humans, right? People found new ways to come up with new ideas in challenging situations. And so, it’s not a data driven decision. It’s a feelings decision. There are a lot of people who lead who cannot fathom that work can happen in different places.” 

Photo Credit: Anna Bullock